"Can you forget?"
The podcast on learning, forgetting and remembering
Learning is hard. Forgetting is sometimes even harder. How do you get rid of what you’ve learned? That’s what Rainer Holl, author, moderator and poetry slammer, wants to know and understand. To this end, he interviews scientists from the Collaborative Research Center “Extinction Learning” about their research. Look forward to peering into the brain’s cards! Expect fascinating insights from the fields of Psychology, Biopsychology and Neuroscience, a look behind the scenes of everyday scientific life, and slam poetry.
“Can you forget? – The podcast on learning, forgetting and remembering” is published once a month in German language. The material is not relevant for exams.
The podcast on learning, forgetting and remembering
Learning is hard. Forgetting is sometimes even harder. How do you get rid of what you’ve learned? That’s what Rainer Holl, author, moderator and poetry slammer, wants to know and understand. To this end, he interviews scientists from the Collaborative Research Center “Extinction Learning” about their research. Look forward to peering into the brain’s cards! Expect fascinating insights from the fields of Psychology, Biopsychology and Neuroscience, a look behind the scenes of everyday scientific life, and slam poetry.
“Can you forget? – The podcast on learning, forgetting and remembering” is published once a month in German language. The material is not relevant for exams.
“Kannste Vergessen?” is entering its third season! And after we have hopefully discussed the basics of extinction in the 20 previous episodes, in the third season we approach areas that we all know – according to the motto: What does research on extinction have to do with our areas of life?
In particular, this season we look at issues that we are currently negotiating socially. So look forward to exciting episodes on topics such as artificial intelligence, the neurological dimensions of the climate crisis, mental health and strategies for greater well-being. Of course, as always, well-founded and fed directly from our basic research on extinction learning! Listen everywhere where podcasts are available.
So subscribe to our channel, recommend us and send us your questions and feedback! How can you do this? Just send us a WhatsApp voice message or SMS to +49 1522 8179784 or an email to sfb1280-presse@ruhr-uni-bochum.de. We’re happy to hear and read from you.
Season 3 Episode 7, July: A small chip for a human …
Our guests this time are Christian Klaes and Nikolai Axmacher, who are both researching from different directions into how we can build and use brain-technology connections. At the beginning of 2024, the media attention on these topics was very high for a short time. This was because the US company Neuralink presented its patient Noland Arbaugh, who is paralyzed and can now control a computer using his thoughts following the implantation of an innovative brain chip, in a livestream. Away from the media spotlight, neuroprosthetics and research into neurotechnologies is already well advanced. And of course, a chip in the brain that is connected to our thoughts and cognitive functions also means a whole host of unanswered questions for learning, forgetting and remembering. So this episode is about what we could use these technologies for, what the risks and opportunities, concerns and technical possibilities are.
We learn that the path from “science fiction” to “science” is often shorter than you might think. We hope you enjoy listening to this rather eye-opening episode.
You can find out more about our guests here:
Christian Klaes and his Klaes-Lab >>
Nikolai Axmacher and neuropsychology at the Ruhr University Bochum >>
Addendum: At the time of recording, it was not yet known that 85% of the electrical connections in Noland Arbaugh’s brain-computer interface had become detached. An article in the New York Times states that many functions have nevertheless been retained, albeit through new uses. Arbaugh does not regret the operation. Neuralink has not yet commented on the incident. Link to NY Times article >>
Because today’s topic offers so many possibilities for further reading, here are a lot of links to the relevant articles in Wikipedia to continue reading from there:
Our moderator and Poetry Slammer Rainer Holl also does many things:
We look forward to a rating in your podcast apps – and are always (!) happy to receive emails with suggestions, feedback, questions, additions or topic suggestions.
Feel free to send us an email to sfb1280-presse@ruhr-uni-bochum.de!
Rainer Holl’s lyrical summary
translated losing all rhymes, so better listen to it at the end of the podcasts
We live in modern times
And it cannot be denied
That computers and machines
Hold a candle to the intellect
With chatbots and AI systems we solve problems that
Even humans could easily tackle, but with technology
Can handle large amounts of data, bigger than we ever thought
Can be handled in a short time, making new research possible
When intracranial chips extract data from the brain
Send this data stream outwards via the finest threads
So that modern algorithms can interpret this data
And researchers recognize how signal and effect are connected
In the future, humans and machines will merge more and more
Computer chips directly in the brain open up completely new worlds
Quadriplegic patients or people with prostheses
can use this technology to read out their brainwaves
Who then use it to give clear instructions to a computer
Step by step, they gain more freedom in their lives
This technique has been researched and is ready for use
It needs the right conditions and then the time will come
When there is a chip for Parkinson’s and Alzheimer’s for the brain
The balance between risk and gain remains crucial
But people can also benefit without implants
Who transport themselves into worlds with virtual reality
To expose themselves to their fear in safe scenarios
This is neurotechnology that we are already implementing today
So – we are not cyborgs yet, but the first steps have been taken
What still sounds like science fiction is already technically well thought out
So we can give people who are paralyzed a bit of hope
For a neurotechnological and self-determined life.
Season 3 Episode 6, April: Brain research and drinking tea
This time we are really going into practice: Dr. Marlies Pinnow is a psychologist and heads the motivation working group at Ruhr University Bochum – which means you can learn from her what keeps us on our feet at heart. How do I achieve my goals? How do I even know what my goals are? How can I stay motivated? Do I always have to be brave and hard-working to get where I want to go?
Joking aside, presenter and poetry slammer Rainer Holl asks Marlies Pinnow what psychology knows about our inner motivations, how neuroscientific findings prove themselves in practice and what amazing insights motivational psychology has revealed about the goals we set ourselves.
This episode is full of tips for all those who don’t know exactly where their good intentions have actually disappeared to (it’s only April …) and how they can really achieve their goals and wishes. Of course, despite all this practical experience, Marlies Pinnow does not neglect basic research, as she has a wealth of experience and a varied life of research in psychology and neuroscience to share.
You can read more about Marlies Pinnow and the AG Motivation here: Arbeitsgruppe Motivation >>
Here is an article from Bochum Biopsychology on the question of what in the brain makes some people hesitant and what makes some people more eager to act: The Structural and Functional Signature of Action Control >>
Here you can find a summary of the article in German: How the brains of procrastinators and doers differ >>
Our moderator and Poetry Slammer Rainer Holl also does many things:
https://rainerholl.de/ >>
We look forward to a rating in your podcast apps – and are always (!) happy to receive emails with suggestions, feedback, questions, additions or topic suggestions.
Feel free to send us an email to sfb1280-presse@ruhr-uni-bochum.de!
Rainer Holl’s lyrical summary
translated losing all rhymes, so better listen to it at the end of the podcasts
It’s that time again and I’m motivated
I have chosen and defined a new goal
I have formulated a resolution for this in writing
I am fully focused on this new project
I have consumed the knowledge I need to achieve it
I ignored how long it would take me to achieve it
I’ll start first and then see what happens
After a week, I have probably already given up
Because good intentions alone are not enough to succeed
We must always combine what we want to achieve with a plan
We need to learn to better appreciate how long things really take
So that we don’t ruin our schedule with over-motivated planning
Because we are timing junkies whose data regularly crashes
Because we plan optimistically and often overestimate ourselves in the process
We also regularly and shamefully disregard
That sometimes things don’t work out with the things we have planned
We have to take obstacles into account, anticipate them wisely
It is not enough to simply manifest our goals
We have to factor resistance into our planning
To always know how to regulate problems when they arise
I myself am a doer and sometimes I should rather ponder
But if I didn’t act at all, I would resent that too
We need both dimensions, situation-oriented and action-oriented
The main thing is that we always act in an organized way
This does not only include knowing how we achieve goals
Rather, the why behind it is crucial
Because then we make plans that are truly motivated
That are not simply fixated on an outcome
Then we not only have a good strategy
But also finally enough energy again
And thanks to sufficient motivation
In the end – our destination.
Season 3 Episode 5, March: Brain research and drinking tea
Since the 1990s, a term has been doing the rounds in science that has become an integral part of almost every discipline: open science or “public science”.
In the research culture, this means that all steps of scientific work are communicated in a transparent, accessible, verifiable and comprehensible manner and not just the results. Open science aims to ensure that society does not have to “simply believe” research results, but that they are authenticated through constant scrutiny by the public and peers and can be actively monitored.
Even if the concept is older, open science is not a real standard everywhere. The CRC 1280 Extinction Learning has set itself rules according to which the scientists here work openly. And our guests Lianne Wolsink and Robert Reichert have founded a journal club in which scientists meet continuously from the very beginning of their careers to critically reflect on research practices, learn from each other, avoid mistakes and develop techniques that make their science watertight: This is the ReproducibiliTEA at Ruhr-Universität Bochum, part of an international grassroots movement that aims to bring open science and knowledge about the improved reproducibility of research results to the world.
And that is what is needed today: joint critical work on transparency strategies for increasingly complex science. After all, the greatest possible traceability is ultimately the only real option for countering phenomena such as scientific scepticism.
So it’s time for a conversation about researching research!
Find out more on the Open Science Framework (OSF)-page of the ReproducibiliTEA: OSF-ReproducibiliTEA RUB >>
Find out more on the UNESCO Guidelines on Open Science here: UNESCO – Recommendations on Open Science 2021 >>
Find out more about our guests here:
Lianne Wolsink >> & Robert Reichert >>
Our moderator and Poetry Slammer Rainer Holl also does many things:
https://rainerholl.de/ >>
P.S. In the recordings for this episode, we had to struggle a little with the room acoustics for once. The ventilation of the room made a little more post-production necessary and this can be heard in some places. We apologise for this.
We look forward to a rating in your podcast apps – and are always (!) happy to receive emails with suggestions, feedback, questions, additions or topic suggestions.
Feel free to send us an email to sfb1280-presse@ruhr-uni-bochum.de!
Rainer Holl’s lyrical summary
translated losing all rhymes, so better listen to it at the end of the podcasts
Everyone makes mistakes, no matter how well they want to do something
We usually hope not to cause too much damage in the process
When researchers make mistakes, it’s not a bad thing at first
After all, you can learn from mistakes and always draw new conclusions
But to do this, you have to talk openly about your research
Not only results are important, but above all the processes
The path to knowledge must also be understandable for others
In scientific terms, this is known as reproducibility
And this is the prerequisite for analyses and tests
So that we can also prove that knowledge is reliable
There is the Open Science network for data transparency
Everything is presented here – from the source code to the study design
The goal is clean and credible science
But not everyone is working so conscientiously yet
We don’t always know whether studies are reliable
Some researchers are blind to built-in assumptions
Some change the title of the study depending on what they find
Or there are null findings that nobody wants to talk about
Economic pressure, complexity and also too little time
Also make for a little less accuracy
But there are also scientists who meet regularly
To discuss live or hybrid in their group
How to make research more comprehensible
Here, papers are ploughed through and people work on them
To understand how others proceed, how good research can be organised
Together you do the reproducibility test, so to speak
But at the same time, there is not always one truth
People make mistakes, but even these create clarity
If everyone sticks to the rules, then trends can finally be recognised
A visible tendency towards the truth
And this is then discussed again so that everyone understands it well
Perhaps then, for once, over a hot cup of tea.
A visible tendency that strives towards the truth
And this is then discussed again so that everyone understands it well
Perhaps then, exceptionally, over a hot cup of tea.
Season 3 Episode 4, January: The Dark Side of Memory
In this episode of “Kannste Vergessen?”, we address a frequently asked topic: cognitive disorders, dementia-related changes and current approaches to therapy and education. Poetry slammer and presenter Rainer Holl talks to neuropsychologists Patrizia Thoma and Boris Suchan. The two have founded a special facility in Bochum: The Neuropsychological Therapy Center (NTC). The NTC is an institution that has set itself the goal of combining therapy, research, teaching and further training for young therapists in one place.
Patrizia Thoma and Boris Suchan talk about the people who come to the NTC for therapy, the variety of dementia-related illnesses, education, prevention and treatment of cognitive disorders, the work at the NTC, training as neuropsychological therapists and the idea behind a university outpatient clinic.
By the way:
Because our guests are passionate about education and prevention work, they and their partners have published two free online guides for neuropsychological emergencies and disease patterns (in German):
One for adults: www.ratgeber-neuropsychologie.de
… and one for children (or those who want to stay that way): www.dein-gehirn.com
Click here to go to the Neuropsychological Therapy Center: https://www.np-ambulanz.de/
You can read more about our guests here:
Patrizia Thoma >> & Boris Suchan >>
Our moderator and Poetry Slammer Rainer Holl also does many things:
https://rainerholl.de/
Feedback? Questions? Additions? Send an email to sfb1280-presse@ruhr-uni-bochum.de!
Rainer Holl’s lyrical summary
translated losing all rhymes, so better listen to it at the end of the podcasts
Most people are blind to the dark side of memory
Because we quickly forget how much we depend on it
That our brain actually works without fail
That it masters every task that everyday life throws at us
Above all, we need an intact memory for this
Our smart, dynamic legacy of experience
With which we learn and remember, which helps us to navigate
But all these skills can be lost very quickly
Through an accident, an illness or an operation
Then you’re left wondering where to go
Where can I find help for my aches and pains?
Where will I really be understood holistically
Where can I learn to deal with my deficits
All of this is possible here in Bochum, at the NTC
What acquired brain damage means for those affected
Unfortunately, this is rarely discussed in public
Sometimes someone writes a book, sometimes something appears in the newspaper
But what is rarely mentioned: often there is no cure
But that doesn’t mean you’ve been struck by fate
For many, the diagnosis is already a ray of hope
And then influence the consequences of the trauma in the best possible way
What else can you do, amnesia is not a broken leg
There is no plaster cast for our brain, but there is an approach
It is tailored to the patient’s life
People are helped and researched here
Everything gathered in one place
The NTC in this form is the largest of its kind
Therapists are trained and paid fairly here
All therapists here are doubly qualified
Neuropsychology and psychotherapy profitably combined
A model that serves as a template of its kind
Since demand is not covered, but there is plenty of it
Findings from research are quickly implemented
Tested and transferred into practical methods
For example, recognizing feelings and understanding feelings
Can be done conveniently from home via teletherapy
But never alone, always in tandem
Such training is only an addition to real treatment
But the NTC doesn’t only have the expertise when it’s too late
Fortunately, it also has preventive measures to offer
A few mild cognitive impairments don’t always have to be a bad thing
A lot comes together in this outpatient clinic
And in the end, it’s not just about working with sick people.
It’s about holistic concepts for difficult times
It’s about people and accompanying them on their journey
Season 3 Episode 3, November: The Pursuit of Happiness
A good breakfast, meeting friends, being outdoors – that’s what makes many of us happy. And this is confirmed by surveys and scientific studies. Such as those conducted by Dr. Julia Krasko and Bernd Schäfer from the Chair of Psychological Methodology at the Faculty of Psychology at Ruhr University. Both conduct research into happiness and subjective well-being in the Happiness Research Lab and are guests of Rainer Holl in the current episode of “Kannste vergessen”. In the episode, they talk about the complex paths to happiness and emphasize that we can take a relaxed approach to happiness. Look forward to an episode that will make you happy!
In this episode you will learn …
…how psychology and philosophy define happiness or well-being
…why interdisciplinary collaboration in happiness research makes sense
…which cognitive and affective aspects contribute to happiness and how they can be measured
…whether and how the active pursuit of happiness can be successful
…how our subjective well-being develops over our lifespan
…why the Finns do so well in the World Happiness Report
…how you can actively do something for your own well-being in everyday life
…why being unhappy is also part of it
…what makes our happiness researchers happy
…and much more.
You can read more about our guests here:
Julia Krasko >> & Bernd Schäfer >>
Julia Kraskos Dissertation “Krasko, J. (2023). Many Paths Lead to Happiness: Examining Happiness Goal Orientations, Happiness Definitions, and Happiness-Related Intentions and Behaviors in Everyday Life. Dissertation, Ruhr-Universität Bochum.” is available here:
https://hss-opus.ub.rub.de/opus4/frontdoor/deliver/index/docId/9944/file/diss.pdf
Our moderator Rainer Holl also does many things:
https://rainerholl.de/
Feedback? Questions? Additions? Send an email to sfb1280-presse@ruhr-uni-bochum.de!
Rainer Holl’s lyrical summary
translated losing all rhymes, so better listen to it at the end of the podcasts
As humans, we have always lived
In a constantly changing world
And unfortunately not everything that changes
Is something we like
We often look away when the news
That affect our climate stresses us
But to believe that crises will resolve themselves
Is naive and a bit presumptuous
What we shy away from is simply the feeling of fear
That hits us when we look openly at our world
But this process is normal and feelings are natural
We should not lock them away
Whether melancholy or solastalgia
Whether it’s sadness, whether it’s anger, I know all that hurts
And though in the end it’s a very small comfort
Please never forget that you’re not alone in the boat
Science does not sleep, has recognized the issue
Looks at the whole society from the center to the edge
No matter if workers or elderly people
No matter if very young peoples, it can affect everyone
Because the climate crisis is really affecting all of us.
Fortunately, environmental neuroscience exists for this purpose.
And it says, for example, that not every feeling you have, not every fear you feel is pathological.
That you feel panic when your house is on fire is not pathological, it’s just logical.
But the influence of the crisis on mental health should not be underestimated.
From diffuse feelings to paralyzing fear, it is difficult to measure stress.
That’s why it’s important to know that everyone can do something about it today.
The feeling of no longer waiting idly for things to happen feels empowering and just plain good
To join forces, to talk about fears, but also about concrete actions
Is empowering for the psyche and fosters community and you can even have fun in the process
There is no easy way out of the crisis
But that should not stop us from taking action
To do it anyway is our motto
And for that we need cohesion
It is important to look after each other
But you can always start with yourself
A good routine in dealing with stress
Is the first step to a better world.
Season 3 Episode 2, August: Gray Matter and Green Ideas
The current episode of Kannste Vergessen – recorded on the hottest day of 2023 in Germany so far – takes a look at what the climate crisis means for our brains, what the relationship is between environmental factors and the brain, what psychology, neuroscience and activist science can contribute at all to dealing with the climate-related challenges, and what benefits extinction can have in the face of these crises.
To this end, Rainer Holl will talk with the two neuroscientists Dorothea Metzen and Sebastian Ocklenburg about climate change and its effects on living beings from a neuroscientific perspective. The two have written a book on the subject, which was published in the summer of 2023: Titled “Die Psychologie und Neurowissenschaft der Klimakrise. Wie unser Gehirn auf Klimaveränderungen reagiert” (Translated: “The Psychology and Neuroscience of the Climate Crisis. How Our Brains Respond to Climate Change”) the two make a succinct and powerful inventory from the perspective of neuroclimate science.
In this episode you will learn …
… what psychology and neuroscience know about the climate crisis
… what challenges our brain, our psyche and our body are facing in the face of the climate crisis
… how dependent different organisms are on constant environmental and climate conditions and what this has to do with brain evolution
… which strategies the brain has to react to changes in the environment
… what influence our environment in turn has on our brain
… what the current relationship is between science and activism and why many scientists today are also activists
… what psychology and neuroscience can contribute to a good management of the climatic, psychological and social challenges.
… what extinction can still mean in the face of the climate crisis
… and how two brain researchers came to activism.
… and much more.
Here is an accompanying interview (in german) with our guests today at Springer Pflege:
https://www.springerpflege.de/content-plus/online-only/interview/25857570
Here you can find the way to the book by Dorothea Metzen and Sebastian Ocklenburg:
Die Psychologie und Neurowissenschaft der Klimakrise. Wie unser Gehirn auf Klimaveränderungen reagiert, Springer, Berlin 2023.
Link: https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-3-662-67365-2
You can read more about our guests here:
Dorothea Metzen >> & Sebastian Ocklenburg >> or under http://www.rd.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/neuro/wiss/pi/ocklenburg/index.html
Our moderator Rainer Holl also does many things:
https://rainerholl.de/
Here is some more interesting information about Psychologists & Psychotherapists for Future: https://www.psy4f.org/
Feedback? Questions? Additions? Send an email to sfb1280-presse@ruhr-uni-bochum.de!
Rainer Holl’s lyrical summary
translated losing all rhymes, so better listen to it at the end of the podcasts
As humans, we have always lived
In a constantly changing world
And unfortunately not everything that changes
Is something we like
We often look away when the news
That affect our climate stresses us
But to believe that crises will resolve themselves
Is naive and a bit presumptuous
What we shy away from is simply the feeling of fear
That hits us when we look openly at our world
But this process is normal and feelings are natural
We should not lock them away
Whether melancholy or solastalgia
Whether it’s sadness, whether it’s anger, I know all that hurts
And though in the end it’s a very small comfort
Please never forget that you’re not alone in the boat
Science does not sleep, has recognized the issue
Looks at the whole society from the center to the edge
No matter if workers or elderly people
No matter if very young peoples, it can affect everyone
Because the climate crisis is really affecting all of us.
Fortunately, environmental neuroscience exists for this purpose.
And it says, for example, that not every feeling you have, not every fear you feel is pathological.
That you feel panic when your house is on fire is not pathological, it’s just logical.
But the influence of the crisis on mental health should not be underestimated.
From diffuse feelings to paralyzing fear, it is difficult to measure stress.
That’s why it’s important to know that everyone can do something about it today.
The feeling of no longer waiting idly for things to happen feels empowering and just plain good
To join forces, to talk about fears, but also about concrete actions
Is empowering for the psyche and fosters community and you can even have fun in the process
There is no easy way out of the crisis
But that should not stop us from taking action
To do it anyway is our motto
And for that we need cohesion
It is important to look after each other
But you can always start with yourself
A good routine in dealing with stress
Is the first step to a better world.
Season 3 Episode 1, July: Bots & Brains
We proudly start the 3rd season of our podcast “Kannste Vergessen?” with an episode on a topic that has been stirring society worldwide for the past few months: Artificial Intelligence. Host Rainer Holl asks AI researchers Nicolas Diekmann and Michael Kamp about how they use machine learning in their research, how they test it, what puzzles they face – and, of course, what brains and bots have in common and what makes them different. It’s about whether we can ever succeed in understanding AI, how trustworthy AI could help generate reliable data and diagnostically safe statements in the clinical and neuroscience field, and how research is trying to achieve that reliability.
The three panelists talk about the opportunities, problems and risks of using AI and venture a cautious look at what we can still expect scientifically and socially in the future – and all of this, of course, against the backdrop of learning: an ever-growing superpower of machines that makes it increasingly difficult to distinguish the human from the machine-made on the web.
This episode is a technical deep dive – gray matter, pay attention! 🙂
In this episode you will learn …
… what brains and bots have in common and what makes them different
… what learning means for brains and artificial intelligences
… how to train artificial intelligence
… what special challenges machine learning brings to clinical practice and which challenges can be better met with AI
… what difficulties human intelligence has in understanding how artificial intelligence works
… why it is so difficult to make artificial intelligence a trustworthy entity
… how we can understand learning as a process that can be replicated with artificial agents
… what computational research using artificial agents can contribute to understanding extinction learning
… that bots and artificial intelligences can also be rewarded and punished – and how that works
… whether the brain is really the model for how neural networks work.
… and much more.
You can read more about our guests here:
Nicolas Diekmann >> & Michael Kamp >> and https://michaelkamp.org/
Our moderator Rainer Holl also does many things https://rainerholl.de/
Rainer Holl’s lyrical summary
translated losing all rhymes, so better listen to it at the end of the podcasts
Here we are –
A poetry slammer talks about artificial intelligence
If you think you recognize ChatGPT here.
That ubiquitous online specter
Then you’re wrong – it’s not all poetry that glitters
But these lines … are handmade.
But the boom is real – AI is coming out of the niche
Everyone talks about it a lot, but there are misunderstandings
And as impressive as the applications seem to us today
The technology that makes it possible is older than we think
Because behind the scenes, not so much has happened at all
Transformer architecture is not magic
It’s just the scale at which we build these models today
Is beyond anything we’ve dared to imagine before
When machines learn, they learn differently than we humans do
And our brains do not provide a blueprint for neural networks
Even without knowing what happens on the synapses
You can say the network does it differently from the brain
It detects errors of neurons and propagates them back
Through the layers of the network and thus becomes bit by bit
A little bit smarter
But the question is, how should we trust these networks?
The process of decision is almost like voodoo and magic
How can we get a person to stand up for something
Which is ultimately based on the statement of a black box?
This question leads to many a fundamental discussion
Do we need more theory or better applications?
The models are already very popular in research today
Like reinforcement learning that can explain behavior.
We now have digital rats and they perform actions
Then they are rewarded or punished and learn from it.
So how does the program try to avoid mistakes?
Does it play an inner movie to show an outcome?
All this can be explored much more easily on the AI model
than in the conventional laboratory
And so the development continues at the usual rapid pace
Every day there are new AIs that enrich our everyday lives.
But despite all the dangers and our flourishing imagination
Fortunately we are still far away from an AI dystopia
To prove it, here is the last stanza of the poem for today’s episode
Created with ChatGPT. From this you can see, we still have a ways to go.
But despite all the challenges AI brings,
The slammer says, “Still far from dystopia, within us hope rings.”
So ends his performance, a roller coaster of emotions and thoughts,
The future may be uncertain, but life should not deprive us.
Season Two
Here you can find the second season of “Kannste vergessen? Look forward to exciting episodes on topics such as stress, sleep, fear, perception and love. A new episode every month. Listen everywhere there are podcasts.
Season 2 Episode 10, May: Narrating People
In this episode, our host Rainer Holl has a home game: For the studied literary scholar meets the Americanists Mita Banerjee and Amina Touzos from the Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz for a conversation about what the experts call “Narrative Medicine”. This approach is currently being applied in practice in the SFB 1280″ Extinction Learning” in the study “Narrating People”. Time, then, to get into the conversation beyond the disciplinary boundaries for once! Mita Banerjee and Amina Touzos will explain to us what applied narrative research is, what it has to do with neuroscience as a clinical method, what the challenges are, and what literature and personal talk about illnesses, complaints, or one’s own suffering have in common. This much in advance: Everyone can learn from each other here..
In this episode you will learn …
… what narrative medicine is and why we need it
… why patients are often good writers without knowing it
… why people who read carefully often become good doctors
… why it is important how we tell stories and not only what we tell.
… what language knows about the person who is speaking
… what role stories play in the clinical treatment we tell ourselves
… what methods humanities and cultural studies can add to clinical research
… why all disciplines benefit from working transdisciplinarily
… how Narrative Medicine can enrich clinical everyday life as much as vice versa
… and much more.
You can read more about our guests here:
Mita Banerjee >> and http://www.obama-institute.com/banerjee/ & Amina Touzos >>
Our moderator Rainer Holl also does many things https://rainerholl.de/
For the first collaborative project study of SFB 1280 with Mita Banerjee and Amina Touzos, click here:
https://sfb1280.ruhr-uni-bochum.deen/narrating-people/
Rainer Holl’s lyrical summary
translated losing all rhymes, so better listen to it at the end of the podcasts
When two people or more find themselves together somewhere
It is very likely that they will begin, as if by magic
Explaining what moves them and what makes them tick
In which they tell each other stories about themselves and their path
In which they build bridges with metaphors, draw pictures with words in a witty way
And thus share their perspectives, experiences and feelings.
And if, like me, you have storytelling as a job
Then, if you’re not careful, a conversation can quickly turn into a podcast
With exciting stories that help us understand
What researchers are working on and what moves them every day.
And sometimes, very different disciplines come together.
And a new field is described like Narrative Medicine
And we learn that EVERYTHING in life is a text
That everything in the end is connected by language
And language is complex – but also analyzable
Dissectable with literary methods
And if we use these methods in the context of medicine
By retraining doctors to become detectives
Who listen even more closely to what their patients tell them.
How they describe illness, which metaphors they choose
By learning to see every word as a clue.
TEXTS can help us to understand people better
Because every person is the author of his or her own story.
One has one’s own migraine and one’s own stories
Narrative medicine itself is not a therapy
The point is not to heal, but rather to understand.
What exactly defines this story for each person
What position and role one associates oneself with
Is the avalanche rolling over you? Are you witnessing a drama?
That is, a victim of natural forces or a visitor to the theater?
There are various ways of talking about one’s illnesses
Narrative medicine tries to understand them better.
But in literature, as in life, nothing is simply true.
And even one’s own script is anything but final
We can change our stories – update metaphors
The black dog of depression can become a lap dog
And when stories change, extinction may happen
That’s why the project is right here with us
It’s important to look behind the scenes of our language
For we humans are still entangled in stories
Season 2 Episode 9, April: Chips and Chunks!
After an admittedly long hibernation, we open the microphones for you again, turn up the volume to 100% and bring you a freshly produced 9th episode of the 2nd season of our podcast “Kannste Vergessen? – This time, we have a real hands-on episode: Today, host Rainer Holl interviews two good friends, scientists Jonas Rose and Roland Pusch, about how research is conducted at the SFB 1280 and what methods neuroscience has at its disposal. It’s about intelligence, brain evolution and how to reconcile a research question with the appropriate methods, what we are researching with these methods today and what we still want to research – and by the way, what it’s like when the majority of colleagues are birds – “dinos that made it”, right among us.
In this episode you will learn …
… how intelligence is actually researched
… what the brains of mammals and birds have in common and what makes them different
… how to find the right methods for scientific questions
… what role technology plays in research
… how to find out which animals are suitable for basic neuroscientific research
… how light can be used to control cells
… whether this means that the future is already here
… and: what AI development could learn from neuroscientists, e.g. in the SFB 1280, in order to develop neuronal networks that are more exemplary than what has been done so far
… and much more.
You can read more about our guests here:
Roland Pusch >> & Jonas Rose >>
Rainer Holl’s lyrical summary
translated losing all rhymes, so better listen to it at the end of the podcasts
Roland Pusch and Jonas Rose were two equally great experts.
Who explained to us laymen once and – hopefully – for all
That a particularly high degree of natural intelligence
is guaranteed not to be defined by the closeness of species to humans
No – we are not that special, maybe not always that smart
One can also specialize one’s behavior without a broad know-hoh
As long as you know where the chips are, there’s no reason to be very smart
But when the wind changes, the environment changes, then the smart ones will be the stronger ones
This includes us humans, but also the dear pigeons
They are often underestimated, but really not rightly, because they are at least sufficiently smart
They are tame and friendly, hard-working and not shy
The one or other long working day
And in Bochum as a hotspot for bird cognition, the work with the animals has a long tradition
We owe many a legendary technical paper to them
So of course not only the pigeons – but also
We briefly note: Birds are the dinos that have made it
Who have adapted extremely skillfully to a changed world even after the comet
With an evolutionary lineage separate from that of humans
We can still claim that birds are intelligent
But how do birds do it with their brains wired quite differently?
Are there general principles that work in both brain types?
This is what we are researching here in Bochum, and the animals are being trained for this purpose
Procedures are developed and methods are standardized
Then a behavior is learned and then internalized
So that the animals then act instinctively, automated, so to speak
Then the behavior is recalled and tried thousands of times
Until suddenly at the thousand and first time a small detail varies
How the behavior then changes is analyzed in detail
And also in the brain we look what happens and mark active areas
We can even control cells with light beams
Can determine whether areas prefer to sleep or fire
And can then finally describe individual functions
This sounds really crass and like fun times – BUT
Let’s be honest…
We proceed here almost mechanically
But a brain is far from being a two-stroke engine
But maybe this is the common ground between our brains
They are different engines but work similarly
Not the same structures, but similar circuits
It is not the spatial arrangement that counts, but only the mode of operation
Yes and to understand THAT better, there is still much to explore and as long as that remains so
Our pigeons and crows continue to come to work every day in the name of progress.
Season 2 Episode 8, December: No fear!
On the winding tower of the Deutsches Bergbaumuseum at over 50 meters, Rainer Holl welcomes his guest Beray Macit in episode 8 of our podcast “Kannste vergessen?”. The doctoral student and behavioral therapist is conducting research on exposure therapy in SFB 1280. What is anxiety? And how do you get rid of anxiety disorders? Find out in our first episode, “Out of Home.” And don’t worry: we’ll hear you again in the new year!😊
In this episode you will learn…
…what leads researchers of the SFB 1280 to the winding tower of the mining museum
…what fear actually is
…when we start to talk about an anxiety disorder or phobia
…what agoraphobia and panic disorders are
…how we can successfully face our fears
…how the “expo” and exposure therapy is formed
…how to sustain the effect of confrontation therapy
…how to counteract everyday ruminations and worries
…and start confidently into the new year.
…and much more.
Rainer Holl’s lyrical summary
translated losing all rhymes, so better listen to it at the end of the podcasts
Unlearning fear?!
Courage – according to the Duden
Means to overcome fear
But what is ANGST and what is not
Can not always be well justified
Do I avoid heights because I am evolutionarily polarized that way?
Do I really know for sure that I am not threatened at the railing?
Am I sure that this is a completely normal fear in me?
Because fears have naturally all a meaning…
Or does the feeling limit me in a certain way?
Am I controlled by the fear, do I still decide freely?
Is there a pressure of suffering that I may not even notice?
Or do I suffer on the contrary already if I only THINK about it?
Standing on a winding tower – In Bochum
In the middle of winter – For research
I do not have an acute fear of heights,
But there are nicer places to feel good
The border to phobia is when the perception is distorted
When something is objectively not bad but we think: Oh, dangerous
For example, when I’m afraid that the grate will break under me.
Although I should know that this is actually not possible
Then there is only one way – it leads through the fear
We don’t give avoidance as a symptom a chance at all
The avoidance is avoided – we look for the confrontation
Slowly unlearning our fear – extinction through exposure
There are many things to consider and each step, no matter how small
Is carefully planned and follows a fixed script.
But this is only important for the people who think up the experiments.
The most important thing is that the test persons do not simply check out mentally.
If possible, they should remain consciously in the situation for as long as possible.
Only in this way is the possibility really given to overwrite the old brain trace.
And when it is learned – Nothing happened to me.
The danger I saw was not really real
And this feeling is then consolidated
Trained on the computer, so then virtually
Then this is extinction in its purest form.
Here unfortunately only shortened explained, but therefore just in the very best rhyme form
Season 2 Episode 7, October: Listen to who is researching
A day in our lab – in episode 7 of our podcast ” Kannste vergessen?” Rainer Holl takes a look behind the scenes of everyday scientific life at the SFB 1280. What happens every day behind the office doors or in the labs? What is the current research being done? What are they working on? And who makes this research possible? Look forward to a very special audio show!
In this episode you will learn…
…what the workshop of the faculty of psychology is working on
…why research data management is so important for the SFB
…what role Open Science plays
…what an administrative monster an SFB is
…what goes on in the labs
…which research questions are currently being worked on
…how well pigeons and humans work together as a team
…what opportunities the SFB offers to international researchers
…why the coordination of a SFB means a lot of work, but above all a lot of fun.
With this episode, the SFB 1280: Extinction Learning is taking part in the Fast Forward Science competition 2022/2023 at www.fastforwardscience.de in the category #audiospezial!
Season 2 Episode 6, September: People’s drug internet?
Scrolling through social networks, surfing the Internet, shopping online or playing games – when a passionate use of the Internet becomes addictive behavior and what happens in the brain in the process – that’s what Oliver Wolf and Matthias Brand explain in the new episode of “Kannste vergessen?”, the podcast of the SFB 1280 at the Ruhr University Bochum. A recommendation for all “Kannste vergessen?” junkies out there!
In this episode you will learn…
…why addiction is not just addiction
…where addictive behavior begins
…how a behavioral addiction differs from a substance-related addiction
…what belongs to the category of Internet use disorder and how it manifests itself
…how stress can affect addiction processes
…what happens in the brain of Internet “addicts
…how the 7-Telsa MRI helps in the research of concrete addictions
…how research on extinction learning can contribute to treatment methods in the future
…and much more.
Rainer Holl’s lyrical summary
translated losing all rhymes, so better listen to it at the end of the podcasts
The Internet is “NEULAND” This has been known for quite some time
But how dangerous online consumption really is There is still a lack of knowledge about it
How addictive is the Internet?
And what does it involve?
So are we just talking about simple “surfing”?
Or is there a taboo or two?
The answer is – YES
Because also pornography addiction and gaming disorder
belong here in the discourse
Just like addictive use of social networks
And online shopping in abundance
But not all addictions are the same
Because there is a crucial difference
Between passionate behavior
And what is officially considered an addiction
When you are addicted you have no control
You just keep using and using
Attempts to change this behavior
Will most likely soon fail
Because the behavior is simply becoming more important
Than all other areas of life
You continue despite massive suffering
If the hope for improvement is in vain
But the better we manage
To understand the mechanisms
The better the intervention
The better the education about the dangers of addiction
The easier the prevention
It is not that the brain of an addict works fundamentally differently
The problems we are describing here affect us all, even if we like to ignore them
Because of the permanent accessibility
Nobody switches off anymore
We are used to live always online
No separation of leisure and job
This stress is combated by the use of apps
Their use in turn stresses us
This creates a cycle of constant stress
Which you can no longer leave so easily
But you can’t blame us for that either
Because in all our brains
An old reward system is at work
That functions in evolutionary biology
In addition, there is an overabundance
Of channels, devices and content
That makes addictions possible
Because they catch up with you even when you run away
But not everyone who uses a smartphone
Is going to become a junkie
Just because you like being online
Is not a flaw
You could say we’re in digital adolescence right now
Where we first have to check
What works well and what does not work at all
We should always remain critical
In our own consumer behavior
And remind ourselves now and then
To switch off now and then
Season 2 Episode 5, August: Pestering Pain
“Pain has an element of Blank” – Rainer Holl shares his love of Emily Dickinson’s poetry with his guest in episode 5 of our podcast “Kannste vergessen?”. For the halftime of this season, our host welcomes the established learning and memory researcher, neuropsychologist and expert on extinction, Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. Dr. h.c. Herta Flor. The scientific director of the Institute for Neuropsychology and Clinical Psychology is live from the Central Institute for Mental Health in Mannheim. The conversation? Inspiring, enriching, impressive! Have fun listening!
In this episode you will learn…
…how pain arises and can develop a life of its own
…which factors promote chronification
…what the plasticity of the brain is
…why extinction learning is a key to modern therapy methods
…why shared suffering does not always mean half suffering
…what forms of therapy and training are currently being researched and how they can be combined
…how for example avatars or cannabinoids can help in a supportive way
…how to counteract pain with pleasant things
…and much more.
Rainer Holl’s lyrical summary
translated losing all rhymes, so better listen to it at the end of the podcasts
Talking about pain makes many dizzy
It is difficult to escape from the topic
Who has actively devoted himself to research
Or is chronically driven by pain
There is very little in between…
But before I now continue with my poetry
Shortly a check of existing knowledge
Because also here we must not forget extinction
Extinction – this complex, fragile process
Sometimes highly effective, even if slightly capricious
Is so important, for example, to unlearn pain
And yet extinction can be so easily disrupted by outside influence
It is like a tender plant….
But if it is nurtured and cared for and understood
How it works in the brain and what really happens
Then you have besides classical psychology
A good therapy against chronic pain
Acute pain in itself is not a bad thing at first
We can learn from it, it gives us the hint
For example, don’t put your hand on the stove
Pain has a value for our health
But not when it suddenly takes on a life of its own
When there is no more link from impulse to feeling
Then this learning effect is misdirected
Which then paves the way for chronic pain
But the risk of pain chronification can be reduced
By maximizing our focus primarily on those things
That have a positive impact, not just on what hurts right now
But also to look where I am actually doing rather well right now
And even if we ourselves are not affected by the constant pain
It makes sense in dealing with people who are close to us
To care when our partners are well too
Not only when the pain is really acute again
Doing things that are fun and have nothing to do with pain
So we take away the power of pain and learn a new way of dealing with it
With pleasant things that actively counteract the pain
We don’t just want to endure pain, we want to get close to it
The worst thing we can do is to remain inactive
Because if we do nothing at all, our suffering increases
That’s why today there are trainings, and concrete methods
With which we get pain patients out of their vicious circle
And for this we even go into completely virtual rooms
Where our physical form is taken care of by an avatar
Who cannot feel the fears we carry with us
And he can practice vicariously with us by his side
If in addition a canabinoid is handed to us at the right time
One can assume that the sensation of pain is recalibrated
And still we must manage to optimize therapies
To always combine new training units from it
Because as Emily Dickinson wrote,
It has no future but itself, Its infinite realms contain
Its past, enlightened to perceive
New periods of pain
Season 2 Episode 4, July: What is mind?
“What is mind?” – In episode 4 of “Kannste vergessen?” podcast host Rainer Holl asks the big questions about the human mind. Guests are the great thinkers and knowledge mediators Albert Newen, professor of philosophy with a focus on philosophy of mind, and Onur Güntürkün, professor of biopsychology and speaker of the SFB 1280. Look forward to a cross-disciplinary conversation, exciting insights, entertaining anecdotes and vivid examples.
In this episode you will learn…
…what biopsychology and philosophy mean by “mind”
…what we need our memory for
…why and how we deceive ourselves
…which cognitive abilities we share with other living beings
…why pigeons are particularly suitable for exploring memory processes
…which facets of the ego can be found in the animal kingdom
…which cognitive abilities AI systems lack
…why interdisciplinary research is so important
…and much more.
Rainer Holl’s lyrical summary
translated losing all rhymes, so better listen to it at the end of the podcasts
WHAT IS MIND!?
What is LOVE – once asked Haddaway
And wanted to understand love
What is MIND we ask ourselves today
When we look at our operating system
Through our thinking comes into being
What we first define as MIND
It is the multitude of systems
that constitute our I
IT works in our brain
In small teams SO efficiently
And well connected, that the Teams
As individuals often are not recognized
All the interwoven processes
Seldom occur individually
To look at something INDIVIDUALLY
Turns out to be not easy at all
In the end our head is
Nothing but a computer
The better it is maintained
The better it works
Close tabs from time to time
Load updates regularly
And when you are done working
Shut down the computer from time to time
But still the computers and also the AIs are
Mostly specialized in a special talent
They lack our cognitive flexibility
Through which we dynamically circumvent problems
We remain agile in our mind
And when our world changes
Then what we know to believe changes too
Memory is not nailed down
As part of our survival machine
We adapt our memory
It has nothing to do with repression or lying
It is simply a natural process
Self-deception is job enough
You might say maliciously
But it’s more a matter of
Maintaining constancy for the tried and true
Maybe our brilliant mind is not so perfect after all
But maybe that’s just the way nature has worked it out
In the end we are not alone with the things we can do
In the animal kingdom lies the origin for all our abilities
Everything is already more or less present somewhere
Well, not every animal recognizes itself
In the mirror test – if it does
Then it still does not react
In the end it just lacks the willpower
If you want to draw a line
Between the spirit of man and animal
This border is not so
easy to define
We have much more in common
Than some still believe
Well… Our MIND has in WIDTH
A few more SKILLS then already on it
But no matter how fit we are
How creative and imaginative
It’s no use if our mind
Is not always open to new things
Season 2 Episode 3, June: When the immune system learns karate
In episode three of our podcast “Kannste vergessen?” Rainer Holl welcomes an (immune) strong research team from the Institute of Medical Psychology and Behavioral Immunology at Essen University Hospital. Martin Hadamitzky and Laura Heiß-Lückemann are researching our immune system in a subproject of SFB 1280 and are looking into the question of how learning shapes our immunity.
In this episode you will learn…
…what the immune system actually is and how it learns
…what is taste-associative learning
…what is behind the acronym DREADDs
…how to maintain the extinction of a learned immune response
…what immune tuning could look like
…how to support the healing process of organ transplant patients in the future with reduced drug doses and new learning protocols
…and much more.
Rainer Holl’s lyrical summary
translated losing all rhymes, so better listen to it at the end of the podcasts
The human body itself is fragile
For attacks from the outside a common target
But there are defenses we activate
When bacteria and viruses attack us hard
A complex system of different cells
Takes over the defense in several waves
The immune system of the first response launches a counterattack
Followed by a second wave that is even more specific
B cells build antibodies against those antigens
Which the T cells quickly recognize and pass on the info
Here one cog meshes with the other – what happens here is highly complex
Hormones, nerves and immune cells – everything is networked with everything else
This is part of the hardware of our body – AND WHILE
it is actually almost perfect there is also still room for improvement
THE mobile guardians can also be trained
Can condition them with the help of sweet stimuli quite specifically
That is SO as if WE would program a software update
To optimize the performance of the immune system
Just as Neo in Matrix learns kung fu at the push of a button
And Pavlov’s dogs salivate by the sound of bells
So by association our body can
store special actions based on impulses
But at first this process works mainly in rats
In humans only conditionally –
But at the moment it looks as if research will soon be successful
This principle also for us humans to implement
And thus limit the doses of drugs for patients
The immune system can learn – that much has been clear for a long time
But from now on we are specifically helping it to do so
No placebo effect – we consult Pavlov
And who knows – this way our immune system will learn karate in the end
Season 2 Episode 2, May: Are you already asleep?
In episode 2 of our podcast “Kannste vergessen?” a tired host welcomes two bright sleep experts. Rainer Holl’s guests are: Michael Nitsche, professor and head of the Department of Psychology and Neuroscience at the Leibniz Institute for Human Factors Research in Dortmund and project leader in SFB 1280, and Lars Dittrich, science editor at MaiLab, who did his doctorate with SFB speaker Onur Güntürkün. Look forward to an invigorating episode and valuable sleep tips from the pros.
In this episode you will learn…
…what sleep actually is and why we sleep
…what happens in the brain when we sleep
…what chronotypes are and how they influence our cognitive functions
…what role sleep plays in memory formation
…how sleep affects our health
…what the nap is all about
…what helps you to fall asleep
… and much more.
Rainer Holl’s lyrical summary
translated losing all rhymes, so better listen to it at the end of the podcasts
Sleeping is more than a hobby
Many people and animals do it daily
Some are very good at it
And others… they fail miserably
But daily should not be misunderstood
Most sleep only when the sun goes down
The daylight dictates our rhythm
So that we always know when to go to bed
This is called circadian regulation
Our inner clock and time calibration
And it works pretty well!
There is one disturbing factor, however.
And that is the bluish lights from our smartphones
When preparing for sleep, it is recommended to follow a good procedure
So not only brushing teeth – but proper sleep hygiene
It depends on which team you belong to
Are you fit in the morning or at WORK at night?
Yes larks and owls are quite different
Only when the time is changed, both have to bend
But whether lark or owl – when we’re sleeping
Then our body can really create something
Thoughts in the head are rearranged
Cells are renewed and regenerated
What we have just learned is consolidated
And in the dream completely new worlds are created
We repair the human machine
I think that for the fact that we are unconscious it is quite a lot.
Some are professionals – they dream LUCID
That means if they want, they can fly in their sleep – WOW
But that should not be the bar for us now
The main thing is that you do not force yourself into something
What absolutely does not correspond to your rhythm
So about 6 – 8 hours – that would be great – from a professional point of view
But don’t be distracted by statements like this one
So how many hours have WHAT effect on whom
You will find out yourselves how your clock is ticking
And when you send yourselves to bed and for how long
Tired you then go to rest
Close your eyes
When you wake up fit tomorrow
You’ve done everything well
Good night, good night!
Season 2 Episode 1, April: Everything back to the Beginning
In episode 1 of our brand-new season of “Kannste Vergessen?”, the podcast of the SFB 1280 at the Ruhr-Universität Bochum, postdoc Valerie Jentsch explains to our host Rainer Holl why stress is not bad per se and why sports are a good brain booster. Lace up your sneakers, download the episode and have fun listening!
In this episode you will learn…
…how the new season sounds and what we are up to
…what an emotion is and how it can be consciously regulated
…what we can do to make it easier for us to start and learn again
…what positive role stress can play in this process
…why sport is also a stressor
…which types of exercise and at what intensity have particularly positive effects on our brain, learning and well-being.
… and much more.
Rainer Holl’s lyrical summary
translated losing all rhymes, so better listen to it at the end of the podcasts
Everything new, everything better, everything more interactive
Same podcast, new season, everything more innovative
The goal is still the same, we want to deepen knowledge
And a lyrical quickie – like this one – also serves this purpose at times
To tell the things simply and to whistle on facts
That’s easy, but that’s not enough for us here as a standard
To express ourselves understandably and to stick to the facts
Is the mission we commit ourselves to every episode
And today we learned that stress is not always bad
That it can help learning if you’re smart about timing
So stressing after learning is a good strategy
Then the knowledge we need is better consolidated
And if you don’t know how to get stress for yourself right now
Then the solution is simply – man, just do more sports
A little jogging through the park followed by 15 pushups
It doesn’t matter what you do, as long as you work up a sweat
Because sport is actually a stressor in itself
Even if it doesn’t seem so
But this stress is GOOD for your brain
And also for fitness and health
So the motto is –
Get up, get out, get off your ass
To bring about good stress
That is and remains the best booster
For body, soul, heart and brain
Season One
Season 1 Episode 10, October: We have something to celebrate
For the brilliant season finale of our podcast “Kannste vergessen?!”, Rainer Holl welcomes the young researchers Carolin Konrad and Lina Neuhoff from the Department of Clinical Child and Adolescent Psychology. And there’s also a party! Rainer and Onur Güntürkün, podcast regular and headmaster of SFB 1280, toast four more years of cutting-edge research in the Collaborative Research Centre and a new podcast season!
In this episode you will learn…
… how infants and children learn and unlearn
… whether infants can possibly completely forget newly learned information
… what experiments regarding these questions look like and how complex they are
… why the hippocampus drives researchers crazy?
… why it is challenging and at the same time important to explain true and simple
… what’s next for the podcast
… and much more.
Onur Güntürkün’s spontaneous closing words to the first podcast series
To hear at the end of the podcast
“I think we absolutely have to continue. This podcast is a huge success, we have been downloaded several thousand times. People are interested in it and we will definitely continue either in this format or in another one. Because I can only say this again and again, what we researchers find out, we find out with people’s tax money. And they have a right to hear in an entertaining but also adequate way why this is happening. The difficulty here is to tell things true and yet tell them simply. Because telling things simply and at the same time wrong, that’s easy. But keeping them true and still understandable, that’s also what we tried to do in this podcast and I think it worked well.”
Season 1 Episode 9, September: Hip, Hipper, Hippocampus
In the ninth episode of our podcast “Kannste vergessen?”, Rainer Holl goes on a mental journey to a very special region of the brain: the hippocampus. His travelling companions? Two experienced scientists who have been researching this at the Ruhr University for years: Nikolai Axmacher, Professor of Neuropsychology and Sen Cheng, Professor of Computational Neuroscience.
In this episode you will learn…
…what the hippocampus is, where it is located in the brain and what its tasks are
…what different formats a memory can have
…how different contexts can affect the performance of the memory
…how traces of experiences can be traced in the brain
…how complex, neuronal networks can be simplified and better studied with mathematical models and computer simulations
…what role AI and robots play in this process
…and much more.
Rainer Holl’s lyrical summary
translated losing all rhymes, so better listen to it at the end of the podcasts
To begin with, a quiz question!
What do the human brain and the guests on our podcast have in common?
Just like the CVs of the SFB1280 guard
Is the brain a collection of winding paths
From quantitative physics and theoretical philosophy
It finally goes to the clinic
With empiricism against epilepsy
When the nanoscale lacks reference to people
When you count time in femtoseconds
When you think that can’t be all – there’s only one thing to do
The switch to computational neuroscience
And everyone has their own hobbyhorse – or sometimes a sea-horse
The hippocampus is very much in demand in research
Because without the two campuses, no new knowledge can be created
That would be like listening to our podcast and still not understanding anything at the end
Because the information you absorb could not be stored
The memory would gradually crumble apart
Whereby THE MEMORY is not the ACCURATE term
It is not a black box in the brain with clear directions
It is much more a system, modularly complexly interconnected
Interspersed with feelings and streams of thoughts
In which memories leave neuronal traces
The so-called engrams – on whose search we set out
And to better understand
Which pathways in the brain
How and in what way
Are branched with each other and how
We need to model this
Simulate it as simply as possible
Not complicate
And lose the overview
Formulate a few equations
And then postulate theses
How neurons communicate
And interact in networks
Sounds simple – is relatively complicated
We do it anyway
AND THEN BUILD IT INTO A ROBOT – BAM!
Because behaviour always takes place in the REAL world
A real environment of complex shape
That’s why the robot! And then simulate spatial navigation with it!
Hello!? How cool is that!?
There was so much more I could tell you about here
However, that really exceeds our time limit
Finally, a tip for all those who often doubt
About the world, about themselves about everyday broadsides
Not the solution for everything, but helpful and far-reaching
Is now and then, a mental journey through time
Season 1 Episode 8, August: Cerebellum to Cerebrum
“I’m a fan of the cerebellum” – In episode eight, presenter Rainer Holl lets researchers Melanie Mark, Professor of Behavioural Neurobiology, and Dagmar Timmann-Braun, Professor of Experimental Neurology, inspire him about a very special region of our brain: the cerebellum.
In this episode you will learn…
… what the cerebellum is and where it is located
… what the many and varied functions of the cerebellum are
… why non-motor skills have so far remained underestimated and underresearched
… how the latest techniques are advancing cerebellar research
… what happens when the cerebellum does not function
… how ataxia manifests itself and what might help
… how mouse model supports the search for medicines
… why the Otto sketch about the cerebellum is more than accurate
… why Bochum is the Hawaii of the Ruhr region
…and much more.
Rainer Holl’s lyrical summary
translated losing all rhymes, so better listen to it at the end of the podcasts
The underestimated sibling
The human brain – infinite expanses The complex structures can hardly be described
Yet researchers strive to show us
In what wonderfully mysterious ways
the different areas function, what they do
For example, the cerebellum – also known as the cerebellum.
Up to now, this area has been
rather sparsely treated – like the middle one of the three.
So if the cerebellum and its neighbouring areas were now siblings
For the metaphor and the rhyme, I’ll just take that for granted.
The cerebellum still has many unknown corners
Even after years of research there are new things to discover
With better technology we are gaining more insight
Discovering new functions that the cerebellum has in mind
Once again we see that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.
Everything the cerebrum does, the cerebellum needs too
It helps us learn motor skills,
It controls our movement
If the cerebellum is malfunctioning
It’s like being at sea
That’s been known for a while – But it can do a lot more than that….
The cerebellum predicts, evaluates and decides for us.
In short, it looks a little bit into the future for us.
It makes predictions about what could go wrong
And many a mishap has a happy ending after all
The cerebellum – the silent heroine
The conductor of the brain
The symphony of our feelings
Is guided by her hand
So that the feat succeeds
It takes real power
More precisely, 80% of all neurons
And an ingenious blueprint
And this blueprint, this circuit
We are learning to understand it better and better
For example, through the work of our researchers here at the SFB.
The good thing is that it remains quite exciting
Knowledge in this field is exploding
Targeted therapies are already being administered to people
Certain symptoms are being treated with drugs
This means that theory and research are being turned into practice.
The underestimated sibling continues to surprise us
Maybe that’s what Otto meant when he said:
Cerebrum to cerebellum –
Thank you for the tip, retract your fist, lower your blood pressure.
The symphony of emotions would be unthinkable without the cerebellum.
Season 1 Episode 7, July: Do you still know?
“I am still confused, but on a higher level” – In the seventh episode of our podcast “Kannste vergessen?”, Harald Lachnit, Professor of Experimental & Clinical Biopsychology at the Philipps University of Marburg and Head of Project 15 of our Collaborative Research Centre, is Rainer Holl’s guest and reports on 35 years of research.
In this episode you will learn…
…what (associative) learning is
…how environment and context influence our learning
…how to study learning processes
…what experimental learning research is
…and much more.
Rainer Holl’s lyrical summary
translated losing all rhymes, so better listen to it at the end of the podcasts
You are not learning for school…
You’re learning for life.
This is a saying I was often told in the past.
But what this learning really means now
That’s something I probably still don’t understand today
I mean, I know I’m doing something and maybe I think that was great.
And the next time I do it again exactly the same because
I have just learned that this way of doing things helps me
helps me and is therefore a good strategy
We learn not only WHAT to do
but also WHEN and WHY to do it.
Without the right motivation
We stay that way – yes, not stupid now
But without real incentives, the best knowledge is useless.
Only when we are motivated will what we have learned be released.
But unfortunately I was not told so much about this in the past.
That’s probably why I struggled so much at school.
But the logic I have just described does not only apply in school.
It also makes a difference when it comes to current issues.
Whether WE simply know the bare facts about a problem now
Or if we really adapt our actions and improve ourselves
That’s why it makes sense to do research on the topic of LEARNING.
Not only to look INTO the brain – which forms this behaviour
But also to better understand the circumstances of learning.
Because learning does not only happen in the brain, but also in the events that surround the learner.
That surrounds the learner
That helps or hinders us
Holds us back or pushes us
That increases or decreases knowledge
I know this sounds complicated
I want to alleviate this confusion
I just wanted to remind you at the end…
That human beings do not only learn FOR life.
The statement is very abbreviated.
Learning is rather a synonym
And it means that one is alive.
Season 1 Episode 6, June: Where the heart beats faster
In episode six, presenter and amateur neurologist Rainer Holl welcomes technical wizards Tobias Otto, graduate engineer, and Thomas Ernst, doctor of neurology and graduate physicist, who enter the engine room of the Collaborative Research Centre with him. Together, they start the engines and make research really shine with screws and cables.
In this episode you will learn…
…HOW research is done at the Collaborative Research Centre and why this HOW is so important
…who the technical wizards are behind the scenes
…how to create images with a magnetic field tomograph and what they show
…how to work with large data sets
…and much more.
Rainer Holl’s lyrical summary
translated losing all rhymes, so better listen to it at the end of the podcasts
Why genius and magic are so close together
Science is an adventure land
A world of mystery and myth
There is much to learn and much to discover
But there are some things to beware of
There are hurdles and obstacles
Secret traps and also obstructive ones
Dog-eat-dog false trails
that can lead even seasoned scholars astray.
That costs time and money but above all: nerves
There are plans to make and you need strategies
To navigate skilfully in any field
But to realise this ambition
Now and then you need: magic
We need magicians, we need technology nerds
But that’s not enough-
Because true magic always requires more than technical know-how.
We need tinkerers, inventors, heroes of IMAGINATION.
From their heads – even in the smallest laboratories – great ideas are born.
They don’t collect data and facts in dusty files
but online and available worldwide
So that everyone who wants to can access them
This makes research work noticeably easier
We need people who do research
We need their valuable knowledge
But just as important are all the
actors behind the scenes
Because science REMAINS an adventure land.
And you certainly can’t do it alone
It needs someone with playfulness and foresight
And a lot of imagination close by our side.
Because no matter how much money, time and technology we have
It takes more than this
Only with the right pinch of magic
Research successes are made possible
Season 1 Episode 5, May: Under the skin
How can genes be switched on and off? For the fifth episode of our podcast “Kannste vergessen?”, Rainer Holl welcomes Robert Kumsta, Professor of Genetic Psychology at the Ruhr University in Bochum. Look forward to a crash course in epigenetics!
In this episode you will learn…
…what epigenetics actually is
…how epigenetic mechanisms work
…which environmental influences and psychosocial experiences can interact with cellular processes
…how early developmental phases have a lasting impact on our epigenome and thus on our life, our health, our behavior in adulthood
…and much more.
Rainer Holl’s lyrical summary
translated losing all rhymes, so better listen to it at the end of the podcasts
This gets under the skin
How well or how poorly equipped
We go through life
Is occasionally related
With the state of our genes
Not the ones we inherited
But that of those genes
Which, due to outside influences
No longer pass every test
The readability is more so goes so
They are far too densely packed
Some of them can’t be accessed at all
As if the gene had been hacked
And how it happens to children
Who lack the very genes
That they need for development
So they won’t fail later in life
And what rules apply
When it comes to outside influences
You can tell exactly when
Damage to the genome occurs
And is it all reversible
Or rather fixed
Today we have approached these questions a bit
In our crash course on epigenetics – we learned that
This research is like many other work on the basics
How life evolves in harmony with the environment
Why the influence of changes remains stable and persists
That even when influences change
And things change for the better
Our genes still need much longer
To find their old form
Either way one thing is certain
One fact we have long seen through
No matter what happens in the world around us
It all goes under the skin at some point.
Season 1 Episode 4, April: Body to Brain
Malaise, depressed mood, fever – how does the body communicate with the brain? Rainer Holl’s guests Franziska Labrenz and Harald Engler have the answers in the fourth episode of our podcast “Kannste Vergessen?”. Labrenz is a postdoctoral fellow in experimental psychobiology at Ruhr University in Bochum; Engler is a professor of behavioral immunology and deputy director at the Institute of Medical Psychology and Behavioral Immunology at Essen University Hospital.
In this episode, you will learn…
…why immune cells are considered our sixth sense
…what the gut-brain axis is and how it works
…how the immune and nervous systems communicate with each other
…and how exciting experiments with humans and animals look like
…and much more.
Rainer Holl’s lyrical summary
translated losing all rhymes, so better listen to it at the end of the podcasts
Everything flows
Seen from the meta-level, in the podcast we talk
We’re always talking about an exchange of information
I guess that’s what our research is ultimately about
Also always about internal communication – IN. US. INSIDE.
So how the systems inside us
Exchange, learn or remember
Warn, push or inhibit each other
And sometimes send out wrong signals
For example, on the axis between the gut and the brain
This is our body’s own internal Twitter, so to speak.
There’s Fake News to stress and that sometimes leads to
To the famous and infamous brown thunderstorm
Yes our head, our gut, even our hormonal system
None of it exists on its own
It is all interconnected with everything in the most complex way
That’s why we are more than the sum of our parts
For only from the interplay of all elements
Does a new perspective emerge
A new dimension, something like a 6th sense
That lets us see what would otherwise remain hidden
If we really want to understand how this network works
How the brain communicates with the immune system
Then we have to look at all the components
Their different and also common languages
We are living beings, complex systems
That are in relation on various levels
To what we once experienced and now take for granted
But this is not something to be taken for granted
For ultimately everything is in flow
And we are not just standing by
We ourselves are a part of this gigantic stream
And this stream is simply called life.
Season 1 Episode 3, March: You have a big head, huh? Does it mean you are intelligent?
In the third episode of our podcast “Can you forget?” host Rainer Holl is impressed by the high-end MRI and EEG studies that biopsychologist Erhan Genç and neuropsychologist Marie-Christin Fellner are conducting as part of SFB 1280 to better understand the brain’s interconnections. Genç, a former doctoral student in the Department of Biopsychology at RUB, heads the research group “Neuroimaging and Interindividual Differences” at the Leibniz Institute for Human Factors Research at TU Dortmund University. Fellner is a postdoctoral fellow at the Institute of Cognitive Neuroscience at RUB.
In this episode you will learn…
…what intelligence actually is (or: how neuroscience defines intelligence)
…what exactly a memory is and how the brain manages to form memories
…how (these) brain activities can be measured
…and which consequences can be derived from this research for human behavior and future therapies
…and much more.
Rainer Holl’s lyrical summary
translated losing all rhymes, so better listen to it at the end of the podcasts
What is intelligence?
Intelligence… that is speed
Coupled with accuracy
How intelligence shows up in our brain
Was of interest to us today
Does the structure of dendrites within the areas lead
To detectable differences in our behavior?
To do this, we need to study the networks in detail
Quantify and analyze – Lose the thread in extreme abstraction
Then find it again and recombine. Map volumes and networks.
All this now even in COLOR and COLOR!
How awesome is that?
But no matter — how fit you are at the EEG
Whether you are a Master of Arts in fMRI
No matter how much money you put into technology
It’s all for naught if you don’t talk to people
If you take detailed pictures of cortexes
But forgetting the bigger context
Forgetting – that’s my keyword
I wanted to remember something myself
But somehow I can’t quite remember
But can a memory really disappear
Or is it still there, just can’t be found?
Maybe it’s just in the wrong format
Not coded correctly – and that’s the end of the story
Now I need a leased line to my brain
Then Marie could evaluate me
Study the patterns of activity
Algorithmize the process of memory
At least in the beginning.
But STILL I have no electrodes in my head – so fortunately
And so I am left with forgotten memory for today
Season 1 Episode 2, February: Darling, it’s not what you think
“Learned stuff sticks better if you’ve gone for a run afterwards” – that’s Rainer Holl’s lyrical conclusion towards the end of the second episode of our podcast “Can you forget”. In episode two, the poetry slammer talks with Marcella Woud and Christian Merz about phenomena such as anxiety and stress and their effects on learning and memory processes. One is brand new in the SFB 1280 network and an awarded “Rising Star” at the Chair of Clinical Psychology and Psychotherapy in Therapy, the other has been here from the very beginning years ago and is a habilitated private lecturer in Cognitive Neuroscience.
In this episode you will learn…
…what distorted perceptions are
…how to unlearn them again
…and how stress can help
…and much more.
Rainer Holl’s lyrical summary
translated losing all rhymes, so better listen to it at the end of the podcasts
If I occasionally tend in general
To describe an everyday occurrence pessimistically
Then there is a rather simple explanation
Because I suffer from interpretation bias
That means in ambiguous moments my brain tells me
This smells like trouble – get lost
I cannot defend myself against it
These thoughts cause me stress and this stress causes me fear
And this fear makes me stress and I can’t fight it
Unless – I can establish new patterns through experience
That structure my thinking and experience differently from the ground up
Because if you can learn fear, then you can also reverse it
I once heard somewhere that this is called extinction learning
And where I heard that, I also learned that stress
Can help us sometimes, if you know how to use it
So learned material remains for example better recallable
If you went for a run after learning
For some people this sounds almost too good to be true
But stress alone does not turn you into Einstein
But it can help us, if we train the brain
To not always fixate on a negative reading
So stress and extinction are two really important components
To end the bias in our interpretations
Season 1 Episode 1, January: Legacy of the Currywurst
Extinction Learning – What is that supposed to be? This is the question Rainer Holl asks himself in the first episode of our podcast “Can you forget?” His guests? Ulrike Bingel, Professor of Clinical Neuroscience at the University Hospital in Essen, and Onur Güntürkün, Professor of Biopsychology at the Ruhr University in Bochum and spokesperson for the Collaborative Research Center “Extinction Learning”.
In this episode you will learn…
…what two memory copies have to do with a curry sausage
…how our thoughts, feelings and actions influence the experience of pain
…what the placebo effect is and how it works
…why it is fantastic to do research in SFB 1280
…and much more.
Rainer Holl’s lyrical summary
translated losing all rhymes, so better listen to it at the end of the podcasts
The Brain – Infinite Vastness
We will probably never really understand
How this most complex of all structures
In which we search for questions and answers
Really works. Like really works!
But that is also not bad. We are only human.
And that’s why we’re still going on a search for clues
We want to investigate all relevant components
We don’t want to know everything directly – but we want to understand it better.
For example, where you instinctively turn your head when kissing.
You don’t always need a huge budget for good research.
Sometimes pencil and paper, as well as sufficient coffee are enough
And when it really matters
That you make progress in a field
When it’s time for a new level of collaboration
Then it’s best to apply for a collaborative research center
This is where the best minds in a discipline come together
To anchor a certain research field in its depth
Here, one deliberately dedicates oneself to only one major topic
But then you can also really plow it hard
In SFB 1280, everything revolves around the brain
Learning and forgetting and the processes involved
Why we can remember and why we can’t remember some things
Is there only one big memory or is there another layer?
Can we get sick through thoughts?
And can hope heal?
Can pain be learned
And how can we avoid it?
Why do placebos work – donating painless rest
What do expectations have to do with all this?
These are questions in our focus
This is what we are researching at the RUB here in Bochum
We are not only dealing with forgetting here
but also with the description of new learning processes
Extinction learning is the technical term for this
And the most interesting facts about it – you can find them here
From now on every month in our Podcast
Kannste Vergessen – We are happy if you listen in